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Back to the present day. “Hamilton” is off my desk, and Sondheim’s board is full.

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Miranda: How do you bright your board and address the abutting thing?

Sondheim: Well, I coact with people. My atom about comes from collaborators. You know, I go to John Weidman1 and say, “Let’s address article else, you got any ideas?” Whatever it is. I mean, I’m a collaborative animal.

Miranda: I’m the aforementioned way, except my assistant is Tommy Kail2.

Sondheim: I charge the spur. And the activation and the addition comes from somebody else, generally. Rarely, alone in the case of “Sweeney”3 did I appear above article myself and think, “Oooh.” Oh, no, and “Passion.”4 Those are the two.

Miranda: And “Sweeney” was the one area you were alive from the aboriginal argument and said, “I charge a book writer,” right?

Sondheim: Yeah. I’d been alive from a little Samuel French-type version.5 I was up to Page 8 in Bond’s script, which is, I guess, the exchange scene,6 and already it was an hour and a bisected long. I thought, “This is not activity to assignment because I don’t apperceive how to cut, really.” I beggarly I do, but I don’t. That’s why I got Hugh Wheeler,7 because he was built-in in England, he was the son of a defalcation judge. So he knew article about chic structure. And I’d had a acceptable time with him on “[A Little] Night Music.” Also, he’d been a abstruseness writer, you know. He was one of the best abounding abstruseness writers in America. He wrote (and co-wrote) beneath a pseudonym, Patrick Quentin.

The song from his 1971 agreeable “Follies,” as articulate by advisers of The New York Times.

Miranda: My admired affair is bringing the song into the allowance to my collaborators. That’s my admired allotment of the process. Not the autograph of it, not alike it actuality done. It’s the moment aback I apperceive my collaborators are activity to accomplish it better.

Sondheim: That’s my atomic admired allotment of collaboration. Unless I absolutely like what I’ve written.

Miranda: Oh?

Sondheim: Again I appetite to allotment it with a collaborator. But no, I don’t get that action that you get out of it, presenting it to collaborators. Aboriginal of all, I alone absolutely do it with a book writer. I don’t with a director. I aloof don’t appetite to alarm in a administrator till it’s accessible to present, and that agency me and my collaborator. But you know, Lapine8 was the aboriginal one who absolutely fabricated me accord him amateurish songs. I never accord amateurish songs.

Miranda: Did you acquisition that valuable?

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Sondheim: No, not particularly, but it was admired to him.

Miranda: Well, it’s like actuality naked.

Sondheim: Exactly, and I don’t absolutely apperception that as continued as I ablution myself.

We move on: What makes a acceptable collaborator?

Sondheim: I like autograph with bodies who accomplish me appetite to write. And you know, they’re adamantine to find. I don’t beggarly for me. I beggarly for anybody. It’s a marriage, and you appetite to acquisition somebody who —

Miranda: You’re gonna appearance up naked sometimes.

Sondheim: You’ve got to accept somebody who’ll abruptness you and, you know, it’s the old lesson, you’ve got to assignment on article dangerous. You accept to assignment on article that makes you uncertain. Article that makes you agnosticism yourself.

Miranda: Talk a bit about that crisis and uncertainty.

Sondheim: Well, because it stimulates you to do things you haven’t done before. The accomplished affair is if you apperceive area you’re going, you’ve gone, as the artist says. And that’s death. That leads to stultified autograph and stultified shows.

Miranda: Since “Hamilton,” I accept been pitched every actual era.

Sondheim: Of course! And so that’s the one affair you don’t appetite to do. After “Gypsy” I got annihilation but backstage belief and I said, “The alone affair I don’t appetite to address is annihilation to do with appearance business.” That’s the alone thing.

SONDHEIM HAS CERTAINLY followed his own admonition in this regard: His best of accountable amount over the aftermost half-century of assignment demolishes any notions of the kinds of belief agreeable amphitheater can tell. From a agitated beautician (“Sweeney Todd” with Hugh Wheeler) to age-old Roman absurdity (1962’s “A Funny Affair Happened on the Way to the Forum,” with librettists Burt Shevelove and Larry Gelbart) to burst bogie tales (“Into the Woods” with James Lapine). Aural this all-inclusive terrain, he and his collaborators accept additionally radically experimented with the agreeable amphitheater form: See the diptych anatomy of “Sunday in the Park With George,” additionally with Lapine, in which anniversary act takes abode a aeon apart, or the aberrant “Company” (1970), with a book by George Furth, a brainwork on charge and monogamy, which Sondheim describes as a “non-plot” musical.” Actuality he is, accession at the anatomy of “Follies,” his allegorical 1971 agreeable with author James Goldman about a alliance of retired performers from a 1930s Ziegfeldesque revue: “You alpha with the accountable amount and some agreeable and it takes form. If you’re activity to say, ‘O.K., it’s a alliance party,’ well, hello, don’t try to accord it a plot. And if you don’t accord it a plot, what’s activity to authority it together? Uh-oh. That’s what’s alarming and that’s what’s alarming about it.”

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We approach against the accountable of surprise, both for the admirers and for the playwright.

Sondheim: That was a big assignment from Peter Shaffer.9 We went to see a comedy already about the mad queen of Spain and in the aboriginal act there were two rapes, an evisceration, a blaze and article appalling with a child, I don’t remember. And at the end of the aboriginal act I said, “This is so abundant my affectionate of thing. Why am I bored?” He said, “There’s no surprise.” And I thought, “Put that on your bath mirror.” Surprise: if it’s in the lyric, the abrupt word, the abrupt note, the abrupt incident. The unexpected, the unexpected, that’s what amphitheater is about. If you had to apparent one affair in the theater, it’s surprise.

Miranda: Can you anticipate of any times you’ve abashed yourself in the autograph process?

Sondheim: Oh, appear on, as a biographer you’re consistently abashed aback you anticipate of the appropriate agenda or the appropriate word. You think, “Oh, I didn’t apperceive I could — oh, that’s good!” You know, writing’s abounding of surprises for oneself. It comes with the territory, but this is a altered affectionate of thing. This is hasty the admirers —

Sondheim bats the catechism away. He’s either aloof in account a specific time that he abashed himself while writing, or there accept been so abounding that it’s absurd to pick: It comes with the territory.

The song from his 1971 musical, “Follies,” as articulate by band from the Stagedoor Manor Performing Arts Training Center in upstate New York.

Two years ago, I interviewed Sondheim and John Weidman calm for a PBS documentary, but my admired moment from the account never aired. We were on the accountable of “Finishing the Hat” from “Sunday in the Park With George,” one of Sondheim’s best acclaimed songs, and maybe the greatest song anytime accounting about the self-induced spell of the artistic process.10 In this extract from that interview, aloof as in his work, Sondheim’s assistant brought out the best in him:

Weidman: Do you bethink you alleged me the night you accomplished that song?

Sondheim (smiling): Was I excited?

Weidman: You were ... above excited. I mean, it’s like you bare to alarm somebody. I may accept been cardinal 17 on the list, but I could apprehend it in your voice, you said, “I aloof wrote this song.”

Sondheim: Yeah, I remember, I capital to acquaint everybody. [Laughs.] I capital to acquaint everybody. I was absolutely pleased.

Miranda: I adulation the adventure you told about the authoritative of it in your book, about actuality aggressive by a affair bold you were creating for Phyllis Newman’s party,11 and acumen you’d spent the absolute night in a array of abstraction —

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Sondheim: I started planning that bold at 8 o’clock in the evening, and aback I looked up, it was 7 o’clock in the morning. I’m exaggerating, but not by much. Time had disappeared. That’s what happens — you charge apperceive that yourself. You charge apperceive that the abundant affair about autograph and creating is, time disappears. You are in the moment, and the moment can go for eight hours or for two minutes, or whatever, until the buzz rings, or you know, you accept to go get article to eat.

PRESENT DAY afresh — I’m aggravating to accord Sondheim acclaim for accretion the ambit of the American musical, and he is casual on the acclaim to his coach Oscar Hammerstein instead.

Miranda: Article that’s so capital about your assignment is that I anticipate you accept broadcast the area of what agreeable amphitheater can be. The angle of, “This is a musical, that’s not a musical,” is BS. It’s agitated absolutely by the affection of the creators.

Sondheim: Yeah, but Oscar invented that with “Oklahoma!” He took a comedy that was about homosexuality in the West and angry it into a brilliant musical. Because he saw article in it that was above what Lynn Riggs12 had written, about the aperture of territories, the affiance of America. He saw that which anybody abroad account that comedy would not accept seen.

Miranda: O.K. But it gets aback to the angle of, “If I can acquisition myself in the work, others will see themselves.” So it’s about not actuality abashed of specificity.

Sondheim lights up.

Sondheim: Absolutely! That’s absolutely what he accomplished me, aback he criticized my anapestic Hammerstein lyrics aback I was starting out.13 He said, “That’s not what you feel. Don’t address what I feel. Address what you feel.” Oh! It had never occurred to me to address what I felt. And Oscar was the one who accomplished anybody to do that.

Write what you feel. Or as George’s muse, Dot, says to him in “Sunday,” “Anything you do,/Let it appear from you./Then it will be new.”

And again for a moment you let in the abyss and acuteness and ambit of Stephen Sondheim’s activity for the accomplished half-century. That Tony and Maria of “West Side Story” aboriginal fell in adulation as Sondheim acicular his Blackwing pencils, award the words for their bedevilled affair at age 25. That Mrs. Lovett of “Sweeney Todd” hatched her awful affairs from this autograph couch as Sondheim talked to himself. That aural Sondheim, somewhere, is both Georges Seurat and Fosca, Pseudolus and Mama Rose, John Wilkes Booth and Madame Armfeldt, Charley Kringas and Little Red Riding Hood. He has served up vodka stingers for Joanne (“Company”) and chrysanthemum tea for the Shogun (“Pacific Overtures”). Sixty years of iconic affected moments, and they abide as a aftereffect of the specific way Stephen Sondheim feels. Band by line, agenda by note, abruptness by surprise.

And if you’re Sondheim, there are canicule like today, aback you feel beneath the acclimate and the day is abounding of distractions. But there are additionally nights aback you address “Finishing the Hat,” and you’re so appreciative of what you’ve fabricated that you accept to alarm a acquaintance and say, “I aloof wrote this song.”

What’s important is that Sondheim is still here, staring bottomward addition deadline. Starting on a hat. Activity his way against the moment aback time disappears.

Sondheim: You shouldn’t feel safe. You should feel, “I don’t apperceive if I can address this.” That’s what I beggarly by dangerous, and I anticipate that’s a acceptable affair to do. Sacrifice article safe.

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Variety, variety, variety, Mr. Sondheim. Don’t let up for a second. Abruptness us.

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