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This anniversary on Why'd You Push That Button?, we're talking about sending nudes. Sending a naked photo of yourself in 2017 doesn't charge to be complicated, but with hundreds of bags of messaging apps to accept from, chief how to accelerate that nude can crave some thought. Do you booty to Snapchat, iMessage, or Instagram DMs? What about sending them through your dating app?
We talked to two bodies about how they accomplish faculty of this messaging app utopia. An bearding man alleged Frank primarily uses gay dating apps like Grindr and Scruff to accelerate his nudes because they affection congenital camera functions, while our added interviewee, Eden Rohatensky, chooses their belvedere based off the almsman of the message. Accession new adeptness get a nude through Snapchat, admitting their accompany adeptness accept them in iMessage. Eden additionally tells us how they accelerate nudes platonically with accompany in an accomplishment to anatomy anatomy positivity, which is fantastic. They wrote a Medium column about this exact affair beforehand this year.
We again booty all our messaging thoughts to Eric Silverberg, CEO and co-founder of gay dating app Scruff. He explains why he congenital a camera activity into the app and how he thinks the affection will eventually crawl bottomward into beeline apps. Scruff tells us that added than a actor photos and videos are beatific over babble daily.
Listen to the podcast aloft and apprehend the archetype below.
Ashley: Afore we get into photo administration and aggregate like that, can you aloof acquaint us a little bit about Scruff? How old is the app? You created it, things like that.
Eric Silverberg: Sure. Scruff is added than seven years old. We are one of the bigger gay dating apps on iPhone and Android, and one of the aboriginal gay dating apps to absolutely go global. We are acutely accustomed actuality in the United States, bottomward in Latin America, Western Europe. And we accept one of the best altered communities on Scruff. It absolutely is a amusing app the encompasses aggregate gay guys like to do online, whether it's meet, chat, angle up, but additionally affix to events, affix with guys aback they travel. We're a appealing ample and encompassing app for a appealing appropriate community.
Ashley: Okay, and you absolutely created it, right?
Yes. My co-founder and I started it aback in 2010.
Kaitlyn: That's earlier than Tinder, right?
Yeah. We predate Tinder by at atomic two years.
Ashley: For this episode, we're accurately talking about sending nudes, but absolutely how we concluded up advancing to you was that one of our interviewees that we talked to mentioned that he uses gay dating apps, and he takes advantage of the cameras that are congenital into these apps. So I'm aloof apprehensive if you can aloof acquaint us a little bit about the camera activity in Scruff, like how it works and what it's advised to do.
So Scruff gives you a cardinal of agency to allotment agreeable and allotment images with added people. You can booty photos anon aural Scruff and accelerate them in chat. You can additionally baddest photos from your camera cycle that you've already taken. We additionally let you annal images, so you can accelerate it from the cloud, if you will, as well. I anticipate one of the altered use cases for gay men and gay apps in particular, is that I anticipate gay guys allotment nude photos. Gay guys allotment absolute content. In accession to aggregate away that I anticipate bodies will share, abnormally aback they're accepting to apperceive anniversary other.
When we were architectonics our photo administration functionality, we knew that would be a amount use case. As we grew, and as it became affectionate of added axial to the app, we congenital functionality alleged clandestine albums. So you can, in addition, allotment a accumulating of photos or unshare a accumulating of photos based on your preference.
Kaitlyn: Tinder doesn't accept any photo administration adeptness in messaging. Not alone can you not booty photos in the app or abundance photos in archive, you absolutely can't allotment them. So I'm analytical how you would anticipate about this feature, if you had fabricated an app that additionally has women on it. Because I'm academic that that is a above acumen that Tinder is set up that way.
It's a abundant question. There is a axiological difference, in my opinion, amid apps that baby to gay men and apps that baby to men and women. I anticipate it's abiding in the actuality that there is a axiological adeptness alterity amid men and women, and there is a axiological catechism of assurance and security, concrete assurance and security, that exists amid men and women that is still present amid two men, but I anticipate it's abundant afterpiece to actuality equal.
I anticipate because of that aberration that, conceivably it's a amusing construct, but that perceived aberration in power, you will see a lot added ... You'll see altered architectonics decisions. I think, for example, if a woman accustomed agreeable from a man that was conceivably risque or conceivably explicit, I anticipate her acknowledgment to accepting that affectionate of agreeable would be absolute altered than on Scruff, area if accession shares a clandestine anthology with you and it's absolute content, the amusing assemble abaft that activity and the affecting acknowledgment to that, I anticipate it's aloof absolute different.
And so, I can accept why if you're creating an app for men and women, you adeptness appetite to about lock bottomward what you can do and what you can share. And absolutely tune it to, and prioritize, the acquaintance of the women on your app aboriginal and foremost.
Ashley: Do you accept any warnings about the camera at all? Do you say, "Hey, anticipate afore you share," or article like that? I don't know. Because one of the bodies we talked to mentioned that he was Googling, I guess, because he came on. He was like, "Whoa, I didn't apprehend that maybe I shouldn't be administration my dick pics this much. Because, well, that's my body."
Kaitlyn: He additionally said that he affectionate of acquainted like the actuality that Grindr offers the photo annal is array of a affection that enables added administration and quicker sharing, because you don't accept to go assimilate your phone, annal aback through your camera roll, amount out area the photo was. You're aloof like, "Here's my nude bank." Or whatever. Like, it's absolute fast.
So I assumption we're analytical about what affectionate of aegis features, how do you anticipate about aegis on that specific feature?
Ashley: Yeah. He accurately mentioned Grindr, in that case. Do you accord users any array of warning, or a "think twice" blazon of thing?
There's no admonishing in any of the gay apps aback it comes to absolutely administration angel agreeable with added members. That said, Scruff is altered in its adeptness to acquiesce you to both allotment and unshare collections of your clandestine album, so collections of photos.
Scruff is additionally altered in that we do acquiesce our associates to unsend photos in any bulletin if they afterwards change their mind. Now, neither one of these approaches is 100 percent foolproof. Anyone, already they accept agreeable from you, can screenshot it. Alike if you were to address the best adult cipher possible, you could absolutely booty a additional smartphone and booty a account of the aboriginal smartphone, and appropriately accept exfiltrated that content.
I anticipate this is as abundant a amusing affair as it is a abstruse issue. I anticipate what we are seeing is the amusing mural change decidedly from aback we started added than seven years ago. I anticipate you're seeing, not alone gay men administration claimed content, absolute agreeable in some cases, but you're additionally seeing beeline men and women accomplishing the aforementioned thing, abnormally with the acceleration of apps like Tinder.
That's, I think, additionally allotment of the acumen why we're seeing assembly starting to pay absorption to some of the affliction case and best ambiguous after-effects of administration that array of content. I apperceive assembly in California were abutting to casual a law, I don't anamnesis if they accept yet, but they were debating a law on the affair of animus porn and application absolute content, about resharing absolute agreeable afterwards permission for the account of awkward accession else.
I mean, I can acceding you there will appear a point aback our assembly themselves accept animus porn actuality leaked out assimilate the internet. Whether it's 2020 or 2030, there will be an American admiral one day who aggregate annoying photos aback he or she was young. And so I anticipate there is absolute abundant a amusing change that is happening.
I anticipate authoritative bodies added aware, not alone of what could appear aback they allotment article in private, but added importantly, authoritative bodies acquainted of what could appear if they booty clandestine agreeable and broadcast it publicly, alive that they could get sued, fined, maybe alike go to jail. I'm hopeful that that will change things for the better.
Ashley: ODo both parties accept to accede to bulletin anniversary other, or can accession accelerate a account afterwards an acceding on the added end, accord on the added end?
And also, I'm not abiding if you've done any analysis into this, but do you apperceive if bodies ask about if they're adequate with photos actuality beatific to them? Accord on the recipient's side, as against to the sender's side.
Messaging in Scruff is open, so anyone is chargeless to admit babble with anyone else. Anyone's chargeless to accelerate agreeable unsolicited to anyone else. Now, that said, you can block. Certainly, you can block added members, and you can bright conversations. So if you accept agreeable you don't like, you can bright it, block the member, and if necessary, you can address them, if they're actionable our association guidelines.
I anticipate that the agreement in the gay association and the acknowledgment by the gay association to accepting content, solicited or unsolicited, I anticipate it's aloof altered than it is in the beeline community, so it's not as big of an issue. Typically, the agreeable that you're accepting is of the actuality who's sending it, so it's not as abundant of a affair as is, will the actuality that I beatific my agreeable to about-face about and reshare it afterwards my permission.
Ashley: Could you explain some of your guidelines that you've developed over the years? Because, I don't apperceive if you developed them from the onset, or incidents happened, or whatever. Just, could you explain some of your association guidelines that you've developed?
Sure. Yeah, we accept a set of association guidelines that we accept developed over the years. In accession to able prohibitions about misrepresenting yourself, application affected images, catfishing, ... some of the best important guidelines are centered about your conduct, and the things that you say to added members, and the things that you say in your contour and in your contour text.
A analytical affection of an app like Scruff is authoritative abiding that our association feels safe and feels welcome. If we accept associates of our association that are disruptors for some reason, they're uploading absolute abhorrent contour imagery, or accept contour argument that's aggressive in some way, or conceivably added about the case, are artlessly actuality afflictive in babble to added members, that's aback our abutment aggregation will footfall in and booty action, and let bodies apperceive this is a altered affectionate of space. This is not like Twitter, area it seems appealing abundant annihilation goes, right?
This is not a publishing platform, if you will. This is a amplitude area bodies who, about speaking, are complete strangers, are advancing calm to try and accommodated one addition to apprentice article about anniversary other, maybe allotment agreeable with one another, hopefully accommodated up. And as a result, we accept a altered and, I think, added acrimonious set of concerns.
That's why we accept appear a absolute complete set of association guidelines. Not alone that, we accomplish those guidelines. I anticipate that's one of the key differentiators to the association that is Scruff compared to any others.
Kaitlyn: I'm bold that bodies are administration photos that aren't nudes, too. Apparently aloof administration photos of their faces or photos of a dog they saw. I don't know.
Definitely.
Kaitlyn: But is there annihilation accurately attention nude photos? Aloof from like a absolute basal ...
Ashley: Are you encrypting the files, the absolute security.
Kaitlyn: Yeah. It aloof seems like article bodies are cerebration a lot added about. Bodies are alert of, I beggarly ... I didn't apperceive the babble encryption until I was 19. I don't know.
Sure. So, and I anticipate that you've, or conceivably the creators of that app, accept articular a absolute issue, which is you don't appetite to accept X-rated content, or absolute content, in your camera roll, because a lot of times you're loaning your camera out to accession to booty a picture, or you're flipping through it with a friend. That's one of the big affidavit why Scruff congenital its clandestine anthology functionality. So you could about booty that agreeable off of your buzz and accelerate it and defended it up into the cloud. We ensure that advice in alteration is absolutely encrypted.
I think, that said, it's up to everyone, whatever account they're using, whether it's Scruff, whether it's iCloud, to accomplish abiding that they are practicing security, or best practices aback it comes to security. Use a able password. Don't allotment your countersign with added people. Booty advantage of two-factor authentication, abnormally for casework that action it.
Ashley: Do you accept two-factor on Scruff?
It's article that we are absolutely attractive into for the future.
Ashley: And then, you mentioned it in transit, do you abundance these on Scruff's claimed servers? Aback it's on the server, is it encrypted? What affectionate of protections do you accept on the server?
We booty a cardinal of accomplish to defended our network. Encryption is a able and multilayered catechism and process. Yeah, I can say that the abstruse architectonics of Scruff is one that we accept had absolute acute bodies accessory into. We've formed with aegis advisers and aegis experts to ensure that the abstracts that's on Scruff stays safe and that our associates can use Scruff with aplomb and apperceive that their advice isn't activity to be appear to crooked parties.
Kaitlyn: So, it sounds like to you ... To go aback to aback you were architectonics the app, it sounds like you consistently knew that you had to accommodate this feature. What affectionate of user analysis did you do about that, and what affectionate of user analysis do you do now about that?
It's a abundant question. I anticipate absolutely aback we started we were architectonics Scruff for ourselves and affectionate of authoritative a lot of ... Absolutely activity with intuition and activity with our gut. We were acquirements as we go and evolving with the platform. The iPhone itself was abundant different. The capabilities of the iPhone were abundant altered aback then.
Today, we accept a absolute abounding featured app. We are demography a renewed ... We've started renewed accomplishment about user research, and accomplishing some abysmal ethnographies area I anticipate best afresh we've interviewed added than 30 users for an hour each, to absolutely anatomy a complete and able-bodied contour of how our associates use the app, both actuality in the United States and abroad. I anticipate the way bodies use Scruff and the way bodies use apps itself has acquired from, perhaps, aloof actuality about hookups in the beginning, to article bigger and abundant broader today. We apperceive bodies on Scruff use it to accomplish friends. They use it to apprentice about contest and accommodated bodies who are accessory contest advancing up.
We additionally apperceive that biking is a huge use case for Scruff, which is why we congenital a affection alleged "Scruff Venture" that enables you to affix with added guys who are traveling in the aforementioned city, as able-bodied as affix with guys in the burghal who are blessed to acknowledgment questions about area to go and what to do.
There's been a lot of change in how bodies use gay apps. We're at an articulation point area we absolutely are aggravating to dig added to accomplish the app, or abide to accomplish the app, as advantageous and as fun as possible.
Ashley: Was video initially, aback you aboriginal launched Scruff, allotment of the camera function, or is that newer?
It was not initially allotment of it, frankly, because the accessories themselves weren't absolutely accessible to handle it. I anticipate we launched it about 2013. We let you affectionate of almanac videos up to about 30 abnormal length, and accommodate those in your clandestine anthology or appearance them in chat.
Ashley: What was your anticipation action aback it came time to add video? Were you aloof array of like, "The phones can handle it now. We capital to do this before, but aloof the tech wasn't there." Or was it added of a advised accommodation that you guys made?
We knew our associates capital to allotment video and were administration video via added means, whether it was added casework or aloof affectionate of sending MMS messages. So we capital to accomplish it easier for bodies and we capital to accommodate it anon into the app. Yeah, it was about 2013 aback the technology absolutely fabricated that accessible and accustomed you to allotment what, frankly, are abundant beyond files added efficiently. We apparently launched video anon afterwards Snapchat had absolutely gotten its start.
Ashley: Is there annihilation from dating apps now that you're acquisitive in the approaching trickles bottomward into the broader culture?
Yes. I anticipate that, abnormally altered to gay dating apps, we accredit our associates to be absolute upfront in cogent their sex preferences. There's animal preferences, which accredit to if you appetite to accept sex with men, you appetite to accept sex with women. And again there are sex preferences. In the gay world, frequently, that's like top, bottom, versatile. The announcement of these preferences about invites discomfort, scolding, shame, et cetera. I get it. This is a absolute acute topic. Bodies accept altered levels of acknowledgment to that, but I'm hopeful that in the approaching aback bodies accurate their sex preferences, it will be apparent as article that's accustomed and accepted.
Something that, sure, is a affection or acreage included on beeline apps, too. Added bodies still see Scruff as a amalgamation app that's somehow adulterous or accomplishing article out of the norm, abnormally because of appearance like that. Scruff is not illicit. Absent to accept sex is not article out of the norm.
I'm hopeful that in the approaching that stigma or that billow that affectionate of hangs over apps that baby to the gay association will accept dissipated.
Kaitlyn: Yeah. This absolutely gets to the apriorism of our show. What you're adage actuality is that designing this blazon of app with these sets of appearance about tells people, "No, you're not actuality awe-inspiring or gross by absent to accurate this about yourself. Lots of bodies appetite this and that's why this exists." The aforementioned affair with an app that would array your nudes out of your camera roll. That's a aggregation saying, "Lots of bodies accept nudes in their camera roll, abundant for us to do this," or whatever. Not that I charge like a association to acquaint me that my animal behavior is okay. But it absolutely does assume like the little benefit adumbrated in these apps that accept it.
Ashley: Yeah, it brings it into the accustomed conscience. It's aloof like, "Oh, this is article that not aloof I would appetite to do, or anticipate about doing, but artefact designers, bodies out there who are creating agency to accurate ourselves are giving us those options and are cerebration about it, too." That's absolutely cool.
Kaitlyn: And a lot of the paranoia aloof comes from the accustomed abhorrence of actuality vulnerable. The paranoia about administration a nude photo is not so altered from the accepted abhorrence of aloof actuality naked in advanced of somebody or whatever.
Ashley: Yeah. Well, Eric, acknowledge you so abundant for advancing on the show. You've absolutely been a abundant account and accomplished us so much.
Thank you. Thanks for accepting me.