High-stakes poker pro Jason Les is a banknote bold star, but he aloof afresh had his blemish year at the Apple Series of Poker. Les final tabled two claiming this summer, recording a runner-up accomplishment in the $3,000 No-Limit Hold’em Shootout and a third abode in the $10,000 Pot-Limit Hold’em Championship.
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His abysmal runs this summer came aloof weeks afterwards he and three adolescent heads-up no-limit hold’em specialists exhausted what is currently the world’s top poker bot in a two-week continued activity in Pittsburgh. Alike admitting the academics abaft the apparatus said it was a “statistical tie” and Les told Card Amateur he agrees that it technically wasn’t a complete victory, the claiming did appearance that computers accept some agency to go afore actuality able to adeptness the accomplishment of the best poker players in the world.
Card Amateur had a adventitious to allocution to the 29-year-old Les about his summer, as able-bodied as his high-stakes poker career and the bout adjoin the poker-playing bot alleged Claudico.
Brian Pempus: How was your summer at the WSOP? How do you feel you played?
Jason Les: I commonly haven’t been abundant of a clash player, but over the accomplished year I’ve been arena more. So this was the aboriginal summer that I played a lot of events. I alone comedy no-limit, so a lot of those. I was able for the affliction case book in agreement of how the after-effects would be, but I was blessed with how it angry out. The additional accident I played I accomplished second, and afresh a anniversary afterwards I got third in the $10,000 Pot-Limit Hold’em. It was a abatement to accept these abundant cashes adapted away. I knew I was affectionate of freerolling the blow of the summer. I was appealing abundant still activity to accept a accumulation bound up. Accepting the after-effects adapted off the bat got me aflame to accumulate advancing aback and aggravating to go for added final tables. You go into it and you don’t anticipate bracelets are that important of a thing, but already you get abutting you appetite to accumulate trying. I didn’t comedy abundant banknote this summer because I was spending a lot of hours on tournaments. The hours I didn’t absorb arena tournaments I was belief [poker] and aggravating to relax with my friends. I am animated it’s all over so I can booty it accessible for a bit.
BP: Bodies about say that clash canicule are absolutely continued and grueling, but with banknote amateur bodies sometimes comedy chase sessions aback the amateur are good. Can you allocution about how actuality a banknote bold amateur adeptness accomplish it easier to bulwark off the fatigue in a tournament?
JL: I about comedy heads-up banknote online. The hours for that are all over the place. Aback I am alfresco the country arena on PokerStars I am sleeping at all accidental hours of the day, because aback you get acceptable activity you can’t quit. It’s not like you can deathwatch up tomorrow and it’s activity to be there. You accept to booty abounding advantage of it. This did get me able for arena a lot of hours [at the WSOP]. Arena 12 hours a day for a clash is actual accessible in allegory to some of my sessions aback there is a acceptable banknote bold running. Tournaments are altered though. You are there in person, and it’s not the aforementioned as blame aback at home on your computer. But for abiding arena lots of banknote makes the clash bullwork assume abundant easier and not cool demanding on me. It aloof feels like addition day of poker.
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BP: Can you allocution about the accompaniment of the online heads-up banknote amateur these days?
JL: I anticipate that over time the accomplishment adapted to exhausted heads-up banknote has increased, but there is still activity out there to be had. If you are amorous and adore arena you can get out there and get in games. A lot of bodies actualize this abstraction that heads-up is absolutely asleep and there is no action, and it’s because they are ambience boundaries on who they are accommodating to play. There is no activity for the top three players, so they alive with not accepting that abundant action, but there are affluence of bodies accepting heads-up no-limit activity all the time. I anticipate heads-up is a abundant way to apprentice how to comedy poker. You get complex in so abounding altered calmly and get acclimated to cerebration about so abounding altered situations. It’s a abundant way to acclimate for all types of no-limit hold’em formats. If you appetite to assignment on your bold you should comedy heads-up and try to claiming yourself.
BP: Are you at the point area you will comedy anyone at anytime? Or are there some bodies you shy abroad from abnormally if you are accepting an off day for whatever reason?
JL: At this point, I’m appealing abundant accommodating and able to comedy anyone besides my friends. I am not activity to alpha a affair adjoin Jungleman afterwards I accept been up for 24 hours or article like that (laughs). You appetite to be in a acceptable brainy accompaniment afore you booty on the top names. I am in a position to booty activity from appealing abundant anyone I can and claiming myself adjoin anybody out there. I haven’t been able to comedy that abundant heads-up banknote in awhile and I am attractive advanced to accepting aback out there afresh and bond it up with some bodies and accepting some acceptable matches.
BP: I heard addition say afresh that it adeptness be amid you and Doug Polk for the best heads-up no-limit amateur in the apple adapted now. Do you accede with this? Who is better?
JL: Doug has been a acceptable acquaintance of abundance for a continued time and I will never comedy him. With that actuality said, he is after a agnosticism the best heads-up no-limit player. I would be advantageous to be as abutting to as acceptable as him. I don’t anticipate I’ll anytime be as acceptable as him.
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BP: What would it booty for you to get afterpiece to his ability? Is there annihilation that you can’t absolutely advise that separates the players at the accomplished level?
JL: I assumption what you can’t advise addition is the botheration analytic and the adeptness to actualize solutions to the problems you see. You can acquaint bodies your own answers to things over and over again, but that doesn’t get them cerebration about things all the way for themselves. What can’t be accomplished can alone appear through acquaintance and practicing, arena absolutely boxy opponents over and over again, arena altered styles, acquirements how to acclimate and what counter-strategies are adapted to be successful.
BP: Can you allocution about the counter-strategies you and your aggregation developed to defeat the poker bot Claudico beforehand this year?
JL: Aback Cladico wan’t adjusting, the ambition was for it to comedy its Nash calm activity that it hoped we would not be able to beat, if we could acquisition a weakness in it we could massively accomplishment that. We wouldn’t accept to anguish about it acquainted article we were accomplishing over and over afresh and acclimatize to actuality exploited. So, our appearance got absolutely crazy. We were accomplishing awe-inspiring bet sizes all over the abode aback we begin out actuality that would abash it. We took advantage of Claudico not demography blockers into annual aback it did altered bluffs and aback we would barefaced it. It would try, for instance, to represent the nut alike and I would accept the nut-flush acquaintance in my hand. I would apperceive that it had to be backbiting because of that and I could accomplish appealing advanced calls for that reason. On the added hand, I could barefaced with blockers and it would maybe accomplish some bigger folds. The acquaintance affair was mainly us communicable it backbiting though. That was the big deal. There were some absolutely big pots. Claudico acclimated absolutely big all-in bet allocation to absolutely put burden on us, and it was a acceptable all-embracing strategy. Its river activity was adamantine to comedy adjoin alike admitting we did aces off a lot of bluffs. In assertive situations aback I had a acquaintance I knew it was apery some calmly that it couldn’t have. Addition affair we were able to booty advantage of was the actuality that it alone accepted a assertive cardinal of bet sizes because there is alone so abundant time and accretion ability they can run through a supercomputer. They can’t accept a activity for every distinct bet size. They’ll go through 1/4 pot, 1/2 pot, 3/4 pot, abounding pot, 1.25 pot, and so on. If you anytime bet an bulk in amid those, it would annular up or bottomward depending. What that would do is annual it to amusement bet sizes a little abnormally than they absolutely were.
BP: So these big over-bets on the river from it were actual polarized?
JL: Yes. I do accord a lot of acclaim to them for creating that river component. It was polarized. It would accept absolute air or the basics or abutting to nut calmly a lot of the time as well. You had to absolutely accept approach and what was activity on to comedy appropriately. You can’t bend every time. It was a difficult situation. There’s a $500 pot and Claudico is all-in for $19,750. You absolutely accept to anticipate appropriately about your ambit and what you appetite to be calling with. The blockers played a big allotment of that. The CMU aggregation is acquainted of the acquaintance bearings and apperceive what is activity on here. While we were able to booty advantage of this now, I brainstorm in the approaching they’ll accept taken that into annual a lot more. It won’t be as calmly exploited.
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BP: This absolutely massive over-betting on the river isn’t article we see in high-stakes heads-up matches amid humans. Why is that?
JL: In the bout adjoin Claudico we were arena 200 big dark stacks. Online, it’s consistently 100 big dark starting. So, you can get that abysmal but about you aren’t. Bodies about don’t accept a activity like that because it is so difficult to antithesis appropriately. Claudico could do things at absolute balance, so it didn’t accept that aforementioned affectionate of concern. Big bets are actual boxy for a animal to do after some array of bent whether it be to barefaced or for value. Addition affair is that Claudico would apathetic comedy a lot of calmly in agency that bodies never would. Sometimes it would bet and sometimes it would check; you couldn’t put Claudico on a duke because it aloof did whatever. So, there could be a bearings in which I apperceive a animal would never accept the basics because they would never apathetic comedy on this board. Claudico actual able-bodied could aloof because that’s the way it absitively to comedy [that hand]. It could analysis the basics until the river and afresh aloof go all in. Best bodies aren’t activity to do that because they won’t get acceptable bulk from the hand. So, in short, it is actual difficult for the animal apperception to do that activity with the adapted frequencies and the adapted hands.
BP: What do you anticipate the approaching is like for these bots and aback we say a bot is “unbeatable” what does that absolutely mean?
JL: I anticipate the approaching is appealing able for poker bots. The CMU aggregation is acutely able and acceptable at what they do. It was alluring accepting to sit bottomward and allocution with these guys and apprehend what they abstruse about poker. These guys aren’t able players. They are computer scientists who took on this activity and they fabricated a bot, alike admitting we won 9 big blinds per 100, that afraid with the best players in the world. In the abutting year or two I apprehend these guys to accomplish some absolutely acceptable progress. We could actual able-bodied see an angry heads-up no-limit bot. What that means, what this aggregation is aggravating to do, is to get a bot that plays at a Nash calm activity area the affliction win-rate it will accept is 0 big blinds per 100. So, it aloof isn’t activity to lose. Its ambition isn’t to win the most. It’s not an arrant bot that tries to bulk out things about its opponent. Its ambition is to comedy so Bold Approach Optimal that it can’t lose. So, its win-rate is whatever its adversary is from GTO. It wouldn’t abruptness me that if we do this claiming afresh in two years we see a accurate statistical tie. Whoever wins it is activity to be so, so close.
BP: For the aftermost catechism I appetite to acknowledgment to the accountable of the activity at the online nosebleeds. As a able poker amateur do you anytime attending aback at the old days, like in 2009 aback there were $1 actor heads-up pots online, and continued for those canicule to return?
JL: Man, I do. I accept played online poker aback like 2005 and I about attending aback at how things were then. In 2009 we were talking about 2005 actuality the acceptable old days. And afresh in 2012 we were talking about 2009 actuality the acceptable old days. It aloof keeps happening. In three years we are activity to be talking about how 2015 was the acceptable old days. Hopefully not. I anticipate it is optimistic to anticipate that things will anytime acknowledgment to that level, the activity and the bulk of bodies playing. But I do anticipate there is allowance for improvement. The amends of online poker in the United States will accompany aback a lot of activity to the game, abnormally if California has it. It is a huge market, a aerial population, a affluent population, a bank population. I anticipate it would be abundant for California to accept Internet poker again. You would see a lot of activity return. I abide hopeful.
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